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Has this panel. dr. esiman is the head of it. she's saying as cancer is progressing more and more we're changing what kpacancer is. we used to call it one thing. now there's a lot more to it. there's early cancers that are never going to progress. there are cancers so aggressive even if you find them you can't treat them. the others are cancers you find and get rid of quickly like david op raperates on. it's often hard to know. it's in the reverse of what we do as doctors and have done in this program. we want to know. the doctor needs to know. if there's a million bad doctors overreacting to ...

Tell someone they have ductal carcinoma, a precancer in the breast, they're going to worry about it for the rest of their life. panic, want it out, go for radiation. we've also thought there's bad treatments for prostate cancer. stuff we don't agree with. certain kinds of radiation. you see you have it. you rush to get the treatment. bottom line is -- this is david's field more than mine. psa. prostate specific anojen. i can follow a trend. send the patient to a urologist. why wouldn't you want to know? >> even though there's a call to change the definition, it's still a bit controversial. we'...