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Aggressive posture than jeffrey is. certainly the classic notion is do something or -- but here the benefit of the blackmail would be the tremendous media power. that is a thing of great value. that's the benefit they're trying to get. i think jeff makes a very good argument for their defense counsel, that they were trying to make sure there wasn't any inaccurate information published, but usually you don't make sure of that by threatening to release dirty pictures. these are the facts, you got them wrong, but now here's secret pictures and texts between you and muir mistress. >> okay. so jeff...

Various actions taken on behalf of the saudi government, and he later wrote, that the saudi angle seems to hit a particularly sensitive nerve. now, we know that the saudi government has paid ami to publish a big glossy magazine promoting the crown prince and the kingdom. that in and of it/is not illegal, but bezos seems to think there's something more here. >> the saudi thing is fascinating and an overlay. remember, "the washington post" has been aggressively investigating the murder of their contributor jamal khashoggi. "the washington post" has taken on a mission of investigating that. jeff ...

Motivated, which is interesting to me given the fact that david pecor, a former close friend of the president, now maybe he flipped on the president, running ami. >> there are lots of magazines. fox news supports of republicans, there is nothing illegal about that, and there certainly was nothing illegal about the "national enquirer" el toilly supported donald trump as it did. what was different is that pecor spent money, spent, you know what is arguably an illegal campaign contribution, $150,000 to karen mcdual to buy her silence. so there's history here. whether the effort to embarrass jeff ...

Federal prosecutors granting him immunity in exchange for his testimony? >> well, certainly he was brought in as a witness to build the case against michael cohen. the question is, what else are the prosecutors interested? getting? and also from david pecor, who was also immunized, the chief executive of the national enquirer company. we don't know yet, but certainly after they speak to michael cohen and debrief him, there will be more questions, and we'll see if they can bring any other cases. >> they've got to get something major in return. how much do you suspect

Pecor or mr. weisselberg of guilty of anything. that was true of the obama people as well. it's a way of prosecutors getting the testimony of individuals who take the fifth amendment. but taking the fifth amendment in the united states is not a confession of guilt. i notice donald trump thinking is, at least he thought it was when obama people were taking the fifth, but the basis of our constitutional system is that taking the fifth is not an admission of guilty. >> susan, your take? >> i don't think he necessarily has had a change of hard. he just says whatever is convenient at that moment wh...