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Calvin coolidge talked more than this guy. historians might have to record he might have been bested by a guy, a president, by the way, who adheres to no such rules of behavior? >> it's funny, basically, our public life has become a bar fight, and who knew it would be the "star wars" cantina bar fight. it's unquestionably mueller comes from an entirely different ethos than the incumbent president. he comes from the world of george h.w. bush from dean atchison, sort of the a y, as y say, figures you can absolutely imagine having two martinis at lunch then deciding to project power across the wo...

Respect for their point of view. >> joining me now david ignacious foreign affairs columnist for "the washington post" and msnbc contributor. >> nancy pelosi does not stop to talk and she expressed a view that was expressed by the republican senators, as well. >> it seemed to me that nancy pelosi and vice president biden wanted to reassure the europeans that biden will be back. that this isn't the end of our alliance, but i will say those words didn't really seem to stick. i think sometimes about what dean atchison wrote in his memoirs about the beginning of the order with europe present in th...

Advice that you give him, you will make sure that the white house is presented a united front? >> absolutely. jim baker, who taught me an awful lot about politics, about foreign affairs, used to end most discussions about things where clearly my suggestion wasn't going anywhere by saying, because, john, the guy that got elected doesn't want to do it. i think the rest of the bureaucracy needs to understand as well when the guy that got elected makes a decision, that's what the constitution provides. there's a famous story about dean atchison, the secretary of state in the truman administration....

Ever forgot who was president. >> martha: well, this is an interesting president. he does things in a very different way. there's discussion that if john kelly does decide to leave that maybe the president wouldn't replace a chief of staff. maybe he would sort of run things more on his own. you think that would be a wise decision? >> you know, if i were a completely private citizen, i might have a view on that. i'm not sure that in the present circumstances i'm going to comment on that one either. sorry. >> martha: let me ask you a more personal question. you're someone over the years that has...

It's a phrase he used when he was a civilian and tweeting. when you were -- and now it seems like north koreans are mocking in this statement, perhaps intentionally. when you were secretary of defense under president clinton, did he speak about language and situations like this before speaking publicly? >> we always were very careful in what we said. any time you're dealing at this level with a country like north korea or any country, you need to be very precise and very concise. and to the point. and not leave too much ambiguity. now, dr. kessinger has been an adviser from time to time to pre...