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People that have to sign up for insurance because the exchanges would be there. they are not working as well as we like. and that by delaying the mandate a year there will be a lot less frustration when people have difficulties with the exchanges because they won't be facing penalties. quite with regard regard to exchanges is the issue of people with moderate incomes into the exchanges and so forth. there are considerable challenges in that area. i think this would play into the president's hand about making obama care pore pal atable and popular. >> part of why the exchanges are not working b...

Previous times when we worried about the debt ceiling? did that ever come up? >> i think it only came up as a practical matter like, wow, the president should really think about doing this in 2011. and it's been -- it's been proposed a few times since then, anticipating the next great showdown. the case that the white house -- i think the white house still is not there where nancy pelosi is today. and i think what they would say on that is, look, we're talking about there are catastrophic outcomes of a debt ceiling default. if that ever happened, the effect on the economy would be catastrophic...

Did that ever come up? >> i think it only came up as a practical matter like, wow, the president should think about doing this in 2011. and it's been -- it's been proposed a few times since then, anticipating the next great showdown. the case that the white house -- i think the white house still is not there, where nancy pelosi is today. and i think what they would say on that is, look, there are catastrophic outcomes of a debt ceiling default. if that ever happened, the effect on the economy would be catastrophic. but if a president invoked the 14th amendment after there was basically a defau...

Moderate, reasonably sensible party in that caucus? what happens? >> you switch parties. >> a good answer. yeah? >> look. it's tough. i think boehner is right to crow a little bit. they have prevented obama from getting more tax revenue but they have any' done much to broaden the appeal to the party and haven't gotten the entitlement reform and shrunk government the way they wanted to and i think still a challenge but they have converted the debt ceiling default that was a real possibility a couple of months ago. >> do you think we are playing stump the band? >> i just think to josh's point, t...

That, i see for all of this lunacy, there is slight progress, you saw it in -- >> wait, i just heard them, they sounded nutty. >> again, stipulating it is all lunacy, what i'm about to say is not all that dramatic or hopeful, but it is something? they're talking about the government shutdown in the continuing resolution. i'm hearing them talk about making the stand and the continuing resolution, rather than the debt stand. so if they make their stand on the debt ceiling default and they mean it, that is catastrophe, that affects overnight. if they can move away from making that their stand and...