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These elements that we would be concerned about in it. in fact i would doubt that any successor administration, successor regime to gadhafi could survive if it didn't have some of these folks in it. we have in the case -- i've talked to tom from human rights watch, a big advocate of the opposition council, convinced that there are many sincere and genuine human rights advocates on there. i told him personally unless they have got some thugs around them as well, i would worry about their ability to survive. but in the case of one of the groups that gadhafi really harassed was the libyan islamic...

These activities come after the president signed a secret finding a few weeks ago that authorizes the cia to do this on the ground and it's the start of what could be a potential way for them to actually arm the rebels. but the white house says it actually hasn't decided whether to provide direct arm support and they're not even confirming the signing of this directive. so does the cia presence in libya mean we're now engaged in a clandestine war. bob baer is a former cia officer and is author of the book "the company we keep." steve, there was a lot of briefings on the hill today and obviousl...

Make a neat, clean cutaway from these groups. >> bob baer, history has shown the enemy of our enemy is our friend policy never works out for the united states in the long run. >> no, there will be blowback from libya for a very long time. as steve said, the muslim brotherhood, if there's any organization that can bring it together, it's them. and we're going to expect them to be showing up a lot more. gadhafi emptied his prisons out and a lot of these people have run to benghazi and are joining the opposition. so he's absolutely right, it's not going to be a neat break. >> let's talk about wha...

United states. >> very quickly, bob baer, when you hear this guy is able to ge away scot-free, essentially, does that set off any alarm bells in your head? >> no. i think he had been removed as intelligence chief. he didn't like gadhafi's sons who didn't like him. gadhafi liked him, kept him around, so he was really wary of the regime early on. what i'd like to see is other defections following his and that would be the head of the major tribes. if they leave or go over to the rebels, gadhafi is done. >> all right. steve clemons, bob baer, i've got to leave it there. thank you both for your ex...

Parcel of every major decision gadhafi has made for years. former head of the intelligence. involved in everything. this is one of the closest members of the gadhafi close-knit kabal, if you will. for him to go is far more important than the skirmishes of the 50, 60 people we see moving from town back and forth and whether that matters or not. his defection is a signal about where the winds are blowing around gadhafi. i still think gadhafi is incredibly resilient and we should not underestimate him. but this is a huge loss to the regime. i don't know how he got out of there, but he is a storeh...