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>> at the end of the day the organization takes on the characteristics and integrity of the person at top. very the case with the current administration. i think at the end of the day donald trump wanted another, different, maybe slicker, deceitful person speaking for him on camera and he probably likes this guy's style, maybe he likes his wealth, who really knows. but at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter because the focus here is on the president and his conduct and it doesn't matter how they move around the deck chairs in the staff room. >> yikes. you used the word deceitful. the ...

White house officials will say, hey, there's nothing to it. at the same time, they are clearly sharpening their strategy. scott, your thoughts? >> they're rearranging the deck chairs. remember, they declared two months ago, about the time of the firing of james comey and appointment of robert mueller, they were getting control of the story. you may remember it was supposed to be the president's personal attorney who was going to handle this and push back on all the negative media stories. what has happened is that kasovitz has been pushed aside, probably because heats been seen as ineffective....

The other issue that the fbi might be interested in is what jared kushner said to them when he received his national security clearance. in order to get a national security clearance is a true modest amount of debriefing, one for several hundred questions is, have you ever met with any agents from the following countries? russia would be in there. if you met with ambassador kislyak or any others and said no to the fbi, that would be a very serious issue for him. lying to the fbi is a felony. all of these leaks that he said, i don't know how anyone could know what he said. the document he fille...

You can have every story written about any success you have, and still have questions asked about them. >> well, they've stepped all over their own victory so to speak, that the house passing some version of trumpcare with -- by firing comey. it's like we keep saying it's a messaging problem and that's partly true, but it's because the president himself gets in the way, you know, creates a new story line to distract from even good news for his team. so, you know, it's just -- they're going to rearrange the deck chairs on the titanic i suppose but you really can't manage this president's messag...

The flaws are not about who this casting -- >> yeah. >> this is classic deck chairs on the "titanic." the problem emanates from the president, himself, until we see him change his view about the way he's going to govern, it doesn't matter who's up and who's down. >> paul butler, when a president is under scrutiny and when democrats or his opponents or even an independent special counsel like bob mueller is perhaps assembling an obstruction of justice case, how involved is a president in those kind of interviews and investigations? >> well, if it's a typical president, you're not involved at al...