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Mark: the federal government. governments are e scenlly lefessentially left alone. that little piece is getting bigger, bigger and bigger as we move into an increasingly post constitutional period which is compelled by the progressive movement. and so more and more of the civil society, private lives, individual lives are being devoured by a government that's getting bigger and bigger and bigger beyond its constitutional limits, correct? >> yes. the constitution did take away some powers from the states and put them in the federal government but that it constructed a system of federalism to ba...

Human law which is looking up to and aspiring the perfect justice, you never can achieve perfect justice with imperfect human beings and imperfect governments but you have to be conscious of your obligation to try to do justice. that's what leads to the creation of the constitution, what leads to, throughout american history, reform movements of various kinds to abolish slavery, for example, to bring positive law and the community into line with natural law with the way it should be. mark: let's break this up into a few pieces here. the declaration, the constitution. that key, as you were sayi...

They were promoting government. is this not the basis of our constitutional system? >> yes. the constitution is, in a way, a means to the ends that are outlined in the declaration, protecting our rights, securing our rightses to life, liberty and the pursuit of levin -- i'm sorry, happiness. mark: those are the goals. >> g or safety and happiness, te ultimate goals of government which the declaration speaks about. how are you going to secure all of those things. myou need a form of government and the constitution is what that is. it's our form of government. our highest law. the supreme law of...

Mckenna college. but the reason i wanted to have you here toads is to talk about the declaration. its relevance to today. a lot of discussion about racism and slavery. a lot of discussion about centralized government in the miadministrative state versus capitalism and federalism. you're an expert on all of these things. you've been teaching for decades about these things. let's start with the declaration of independence and its relevance to today. what is this natural law, natural right reference in the declaration? why is that so important? sphwhr it requires an explanation today in a way it ...

Mark: professor charles kessler. we hear a lot of talk about slavery, systemic racism. more than ki remember 20 years ago. it seems to be a crucial part of the radical progressive agenda. first ofse all, the declarationf independence, if constitution. does the declaration promote slavery? does the constitution? >> well the best line about the declaration, i think, was spoken by bernard, the great harvard historian of the revolutionary period when he said the declaration of independence did not solve the problem of slavery, it created the problem of slavery. what he meant by that is there have ...