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Throughout the government is the dee moralization of people who are working at all levels of the government who feel like they're not valued and they're not trusted and they're not cut in on decision making. there is a real hostility to the government that exists in washington. people who are not partisan, they're not political appointees. and the lack of leadership throughout is -- i think it's really a disservice, not only to people who work there but on all the programs they are working on to serve the american people. >> just so i don't have people tweeting at me, i want everybody to know ...

Washington teachers unions were out there. they were not barring her from coming in. they were just trying to talk to her and try to get their message across to her as to what they do and what they're hoping to see from her and get the message across they want everybody to succeed. but when you have something like this where they're physically blocking her from going in, that just leads to backlash and it doesn't accomplish anything. but she is going to have this problem. >> mary catherine, one of the issues, of course, is she is the only, to this day, the only trump nominee who has gotten any...

That. >> but the betsy devos phenomenon is a ground as well of even catching democrats by surprise. again, i talked to a lot of republicans who say this is just the teachers union. they're using their money to protest. this caught even democratic leaders by surprise. this was the nomination that most inflamed their grassroots. this was the one that jammed the senate switchboards. this is the one where a cabinet secretary is getting followed around by protesters and this is the kind of thing, if this is really ordinary middle class moms, reminds me of the tea party, people who were never engage...