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If the government lets them out of trouble, even if it means lying or making up stories. i don't see michael doing that. i'm not clear if he doesn't see him working with the government, lying. jeffrey toobin was clear that the government does not entice people to lie as some sort of an arrangement. it's important that we reiterate that. >> i saw jeffrey this morning when he made that statement, that federal prosecutors don't lie. i do a lot of defense work. i think they do lie from time to time. i don't think they set out to lie. they choose to believe what will help their case. like a lot of ...

Anything he wants with them. at the same time they don't actually want him to sit down with mueller and his team because obstruction of justice has to do with sta mind. the key word in that statute is "corruptly." so mueller wants to get at whether these decisions were made corruptly and they don't want to have to -- think he's too much of a loose cannon. they want to get him up there and potentially contradict himself and potentially lie and potentially say something hugely damaging. >> giuliani was asked over the weekend why he doesn't let the president sit down with him. giuliani pointed to...

They? >> it's hard to predict what they are going to do. i just want to make clear that they briefed the committees or at least the gang of eight and while there were white house people there at the beginning, according to press reports, it's not clear that they have briefed the white house on this. >> right. >> what doj and fbi will do i'm not quite sure. it is not unusual for defense lawyers to ask the government to show me this or show me that at all stages. i do defense work, and it's perfectly all right to ask. whether the department will grant that request is a different question. >> oka...

This sort of work, that could say, listen, this guy is really damaging your legal interests right now. you're going to pay for this later if you don't get rid of him now. >> high end defense work is not steaks 21 club, not a panel on fox news and there's a reason that the lawyers who are really good at that stuff aren't doing the stuff that he is doing day in and day out. what he does is try to solve one problem and goes right and creates a second problem. the second problem is created on at&t and suggesting that, in fact, the president did intervene in the process and did put his thumb on the...

Side that a nontarget letter isn't worth the paper it's printed on because the prosecutor can just decide two days after he writes the letter that he wants to -- now he made up his mind to charge you. i think what this means you know. >> stop right there. i want to make sure i understand this. you also did defense work in federal courts and other places. you're saying getting a letter saying you're subject but not a criminal target. you should talk to us, that from a defense attorney standpoint that's not -- no one's writing that in stone. >> that doesn't mean anything really. very little to m...