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This is a guy much like paul ryan who is respected as a deficit hawk when he was in congress. was a take no prisoners deficit hawk. and was seen as a purist. and yet as omb chief he's spent his time along with donald trump pushing for the largest deficits and the largest national debt in u.s. history. how does he square that? how do republicans scare that? how does the press scare that? >> frankly i don't think republicans in congress necessarily do. his flipflop on the question of donald trump's character is dwarfed in some ways by his flipflops on policy in this area you point out. he wasn't...

I think it's a big problem for the republican party. i'll tell you something else about him, he was a deficit hawk. the deficit went from 660 billion when he started to 1 trillion right now. i think he's got flexible views. >> i think that is emblematic of where a lot of republicans are. look, all that has gone on with regard to the personal scandals and the access hollywood tape, this president many will agree is a little on the shallow end of the integrity pool. with that being said we voted for him for his policies. we knew what we were getting when we voted for him. we voted for him to be ...

Exploiting his position, spending lavishly on private travel, scott pruitt, ben carson, 31,000 dollars on a dining set. among others, have done the same. i think when it comes to mick mulvaney his transformation from 2016 to today was astronomical this. was a plan who according to "politico" said that donald trump was not a good human being being, or pardon me, a terrible human being and as a deficit hawk, one of the founders of the house freedom caucus to campaign against the debt limit, and then becking his colleagues to raise the debt limit, this guy has become nothing more than a hypocrite...

Terrible things that the end of the world. what the positive case, what can we look forward to? >> i think kennedy is right. republicans abandoned the whole idea of fiscal discipline. they lost that mantle and have the opportunity to gain it back because i am a deficit hawk and it drives me nuts that we are rocking the set. go ahead and cut taxes but you have to cut spending as well. and you have to tackle entitlement. i also agree with ann because karen mccarthy is the majority leader. that's the one that determines what bills come up before the house. not the speaker of the house. why not do...

Terrible things that the end of the world. what the positive case, what can we look forward to? >> i think kennedy is right. republicans abandoned the whole idea of fiscal discipline. they lost that mantle and have the opportunity to gain it back because i am a deficit hawk and it drives me nuts that we are rocking the set. go ahead and cut taxes but you have to cut spending as well. and you have to tackle entitlement. i also agree with ann because karen mccarthy is the majority leader. that's the one that determines what bills come up before the house. not the speaker of the house. why not do...