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Deeply. they used to say, no, it is not going to increase the deficit. today mnuchin said not only to pay for the tax cut, a couple of trillion dollars in tax cut, but we are going to end up with a revenue positive outcome. raising another trillion dollars and almost as if they're saying, hmm, you know, we told them that it's not going to cut taxes on the rich and, nlg, that isn't really working. we told them it's deficit neutral. let's see what else we have in our back pocket here. and so, they're just kind of shuffling through the deck to try to sell this thing. i think you and joy are exact...

Many months. >> merck short, when you ask him about the plan, he did not say it was going to be deficit neutral. he really deflected on that and i think that may be where this is headed. the republicans say we need growth and we will deal with deficits later. >> bret: long gone are the debt clocks behind anybody talking on the campaign trail. >> one of the things i think will be a test here is president trump continues to say it's going to help middle-class people, not rich people. i think there will be a big debate when we know the details about who actually gets the lion's share of the help ...

>> merck short, when you ask him about the plan, he did not say it was going to be deficit neutral. he really deflected on that and i think that may be where this is headed. the republicans say we need growth and we will deal with deficits later. >> bret: long gone are the debt clocks behind anybody talking on the campaign trail. >> one of the things i think will be a test here is president trump continues to say it's going to help middle-class people, not rich people. i think there will be a big debate when we know the details about who actually gets the lion's share of the help with this tax...

Competitive and making business competitive is about making jobs. >> a good idea but very quickly after those comments, did not seem like there was a lot of bipartisanship, which the secretary wants. senator chuck schumer of new york saying to democrats, tax reform is clear. we believe strongly not one penny got to the top 1% and any tax reform must be deficit neutral. when republicans with figure out what they want to do, we'll see if we agree that is another issue that it's been a moving target. the president and republicans have talked about maybe lowering corporate taxes down to 20% or 15%...

We promised both things. we told we would repeal obamacare and reform and replace our tax code and lowter tax burden on families and lowter corporate rate. we have theest highest in the world. we shouldn't be in a revenue neutral way. that's a way of saying tax burden is the same. >> neil: some of your moderates, as i'm sure you're aware, are very revenue neutral mind set. some have said don't make the tax cuts across the board and certainly not for the wealthy. what do you think? >> all i'm saying, revenue neutral, the middle class gets a bad deal. we should be focused on deficit neutral. thi...