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>> just to momentarily take up the rand paul devil's advocate to both of you, you know, any u.s. withdrawal, even if done thoughtfully and with allies, it would be at some level betraying our allies. there are people we've worked with on the ground in afghanistan that if u.s. forces were to leave would be in a tough position. my worry is the dangers of that ourmt applies in all places of crept u.s. military activity,er go no withdrawal from anywhere is ever okay. what say you, ben? >> chris, i'm sympathetic to that point except here's the reality. it's not like we're losing service members in ...

Cruz, pat toomey. that's the trip wire for breaking with donald trump, not the other stuff? to what do you ascribe this? >> these are the people who actually defeated isis on the ground. we didn't do it without them. we did it on their backs. so for the president to walk away from them after we spent all this time and effort defeating isis and them losing lives is completely outrageous. the only republican senator to defend donald trump is rand paul, and he's saying the same line as president, it's a barack obama line, which is end these endless wars, which is ridiculous. this is a war we didn...

That obstructing justice is better for them than actually revealing the truth. >> let me play devil's advocate, because when i talked to my sources in the white house, they made the point they believe they have a legal leg to stand on here. that it is within their purview to be able to do that since nancy pelosi has not called a vote. >> sondland was actually approved by congress to take this position as a political appointee as ambassador to the eu. congress does not need a vote to do its fundamental job of oversight. right now the oversight is happening in these commits. now sondland does ha...

Nothing he's done now approaches criminality but he'll have to give up information and that information is going to be bad for the boss. >> just playing devil's advocate here but many times, the vice president has certain things that were found not to be true. so you said his future credibility? >> right, so let's imagine he does this dismissive thing, tries to resist and courts say, you have to produce the papers. and now there's an account, people were there when he briefs trump. people were there when trump dispatched him. people were there when he was prepared for his meeting with zelensky...

Impeachment proceedings last week. great to have you back on the show. thank you. >> thank you. thanks for having me. >> lots to discuss, but let me start with what i just laid out. the white house saying they would like to see the house formally vote on an impeachment inquiry. should the house speaker just do that? >> again, thanks for having me here. i was with the house speaker yesterday and she -- with a group and she spoke extensively on this. and her plan right now is to allow the intelligence committee to take the lead, and if they vote articles of impeachment it will come to the floor....