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Caravans at that time. in 2012 they used tear gas in the vicinity of families and children, as well. border patrol has told me that. you can look at dhs statistics on the point and what happened. this issue is not even fresh in the news. this is an issue that it looks like democrats wanted to solve. what happened? what changed? why don't they want to solve it now? >> jessica: i don't think that's fair. i do think they want to solve it, i don't think they like or approve of donald trump's approach to curbing illegal immigration. this goes back to the rhetoric that was used on the campaign trail...

Potentially permanent separation. >> these new dhs statistics are showing a big increase in the number of children and adults apprehended at the border. more than 54,000 children and their family members apprehended at the boarder from last october to the end of january. that's more than double the numb we are in the same time a year earlier. so what do you expect is behind this inzplecrease? >> well, clearly the violence and poverty driving people north. also smuggling organizations which are having a less effective time recruiting individuals in mexico. mexican migration has dropped. central...