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Not bring criminal charges against a sitting president. but he made it crystal clear that it was up to congress through impeachment to carry this forward. but right now the focus has to be on making something happen that gets democrats down and that the public accepts, at least a large share of the public other than the diehards who are with trump no matter what. >> yeah. i think that's the speaker's dilemma, is how broad should these set of articles be versus what can politically be sustained by the caucus. i have to say, ben, the first time i seriously discussed impeachment with a member of ...

Opposition. you need to have nearly all of your democrats. they'll probably lose one or two, but keeping those democrats from red districts who signed on after we learned about the ukrainian situation was a critical element to this. you have to set that marker. the second is you want to keep this focused on things that make it easy for a public to understand and understand where you're going. that means you streamline the debate, you focus on things where you have this clear-cut evidence. so i agree with ben that what was in the mueller report where he basically said he was -- his hands were t...

People. it seems like the die hards are the die hards and never trumps are the never trumps. and that's what's going on in the media. that's what's going on in the workplace. that's what's going on in america. >> and yet, you know, talk about changing the minds about trump, hip hop has changed its mind about trump. he used to get shout outs and the facts evolved and people said no more shout outs because this isn't a game anymore. >> i was so interested in trump when he was running whether he was republican or not. it was until he gave his first speech coming down the escalator and called the ...

Do the right thing. this is what he wrote on twitter. he said, "when the only american citizen trump singles out for china's investigation is his political opponent in the midst of the democratic nomination process, it strains credulity to suggest that it is anything other than politically motivated." so there is a chance there are some other lawrence hogans, maybe. >> i think that's right. i think republicans, senate republicans in particular, because we know the ones, the republicans who support donald trump in the house, they're all like die-hards. they're the ones who are out there. it's t...

To the end of it. you mentioned the folks who have been implicated by association here. the attorney general by the president. the state department by rudy giuliani. i would add the vice president who the president casually suggested during that press conference the democrats should go after his phone call with zelenskiy. i imagine there are democratic committee staffers writing that down and pursuing that avenue right now. i mean, there is so much farther than democrat investigators can and likely will go with this. now in terms of people to watch, i would take issue with potentially house re...