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Thanks for being here, dick. i guess reading this book, one thing that jumps out at me, you have the whole story established in black mass about the aligns with the fbi and whitey and how the fbi basically let whitey become this notorious crime boss. but this is also a story about the failure of the political system over decades. you have whitey in federal prison for bank robbery in the late '50s, early '60s and there's the speaker of the house of the u.s. representatives, john mccormick, a guy from south boston. robert drinen, a congressman from massachusetts in the '70s as the dean of the bo...

If you're a crime boss and you can count on fbi agents to tip you off to investigations and what not, and to -- that other law enforcement or to the -- someone else in the underworld who is ratting you out, and then he becomes number one on your own hit list. that was the dynamic that whitey set in play that makes him epic and successful as a crime boss. he was -- he was brought into the fbi as part of their so-called top etch long informant program. but he quickly manipulated it so it was in his favor. and never gave them anywhere near as much value as he got from the fbi. that's what's so fa...

Relation to what criminals generally do. what most criminals generally do. why was he informing, and was he perhaps aware of his longer game, because right now we have a judge opining on whether or not he's immune from the crimes he committed while he was informing. so perhaps there will be an extra dividend from being an informant. so just break some of that down for us. >> sure. yeah. i think you're getting at i think what makes, you know, whitey bulger probably the most significant crime figure in our time, if not the 20th century. you mentioned his body count. he's being charged with 19 mu...