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Need to be sherpaed along. do they have these foundational skills, these skills to get to five, and that's a really, really tough thing. >> when you wrote about this on slate, one of the things you described was the empathy factor, which of course became such a hot button issue during the sonia sotomayor confirmation process. the president today said he's looking for somebody with a keen understanding of how the law affects the daily lives of the american people. how important was that characteristic to understanding justice stevens on this court? >> i think it's critical, rachel, and i think ...

Wall street's hand during a potential default, jack lew doesn't seem as wise of a pick because he doesn't have the market experience. a third option, if you think the world is going to crumble and there's going to be social unrest in greece, you also want someone with international experience. what the white house is going to try to do is put a number two in under lew who checks those boxes, has international experience, has markets experience. lew doesn't have that. >> jonathan, dividing fractions in your head, not something i can do, which is why i wasn't tapped to be treasury secretary, but...