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it's just a matter of how fast," did you really believe that? of course i believed it then. i think it's a fair assessment about where the anc find themselves — in the last local government elections, in 2021, they, for the first time in post—democratic south africa, lost their majority and fell below 50%. this obviously allied with the fact that our economy's not growing, we've got 30 million people living in poverty, 12 million people unemployed, and loadshedding, rolling blackouts, which have reached into every home and switched off the lights, switched off our factories, and ...

of the guard coming in south africa, the anc�*s decline is terminal. it's just a matter of how fast," did you really believe that? of course i believed it then. i think it's a fair assessment about where the anc find themselves — in the last local government elections, in 2021, they, for the first time in post—democratic south africa, lost their majority and fell below 50%. this obviously allied with the fact that our economy's not growing, we've got 30 million people living in poverty, 12 million people unemployed, and loadshedding, rolling blackouts, which have reached into e...

the anc has been damaged by economic stagnation, a protracted energy crisis, and massive inequality. my guest today is the leader of the biggest opposition party, the democratic alliance, john steenhuisen. could he become south africa's first white leader since apartheid? john steenhuisen, welcome to hardtalk. great to be with you, stephen. well, it's great to be here in cape town. let's start with a very simple question. when you said not so long ago, "there is a changing of the guard coming in south africa, the anc�*s decline is terminal. it's just a matter of how fast," did you ...

my guest today is the leader of the biggest opposition party, the democratic alliance, john steenhuisen. could he become south africa's first white leader since apartheid? john steenhuisen, welcome to hardtalk. great to be with you, stephen. well, it's great to be here in cape town. let's start with a very simple question. when you said not so long ago, "there is a changing of the guard coming in south africa, the anc�*s decline is terminal. it's just a matter of how fast," did you really believe that? of course i believed it then. i think it's a fair assessment about where the anc...

And further poverty. you talk about "plunging the country into ethnic and racial conflict the likes of which it has never witnessed before" — don't you need to be a little bit careful about your language? no... you are suggesting that south africa right now is on the very edge of the most frightening abyss. i would say absolutely, that's being truthful to voters. because if the anc and the eff do tie up, and having seen how extractive the eff have been on the anc from the opposition benches, dragging them down the rabbit hole of expropriation without compensation, nationalisation of the rese...