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but elizabeth williams thought it was given too much time. bbc breakfast editor richard frediani told us, it wasn't just breakfast that covered the post office scandal extensively this week. that was true of most bbc outlets, and indeed the media in general. but why did it take a tv drama to bring the issue to such prominence? even one as powerful as this. tthey say money somehow gone missing from this branch, which it hasn't, and i have to pay it back, which i won't. so i say, "prove it. "prove that i'm wrong and you're right. show me the figures". but they can't or won't do that. s...

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"well, no, not really. and it's notjust subpostmasters, it's post office managers". "and what's the story here"? "well, they're saying they were put in prison and they weren't guilty of any crimes, but some of them did plead guilty". and it's just quite a difficult, knotty story to tell. and whilst there was growing public awareness of how serious this story was, i think through journalism, it took something huge. it took the resources of itv to commission a drama, which isn't cheap, across prime time television at 9pm every evening on the week when no one is going out. do you think it reflect...

Docu dramas, if you will. what we haven't discussed there is a real ethical issue here in terms of the integrity of those agencies as news sources. >> nbc has issued a statement saying this is part of the entertainment division. >> sure, sure. that absolutely is the truth. but cnn has done the same thing. but, at the same time, i don't think, you know, that we can ignore the fact there is going to be a public perception of a merging of the two. the general public may not see the difference. i think we should think of that and what are the implications of media sources that cover these campaign...

People. >> and it is far from an exception. >> glen, every time we do a prison segment, and you've been a guest, you know, several times, every time my executive producer rolls his eyes and says, really? because we lose audience. people actually turn the tv off. and yet, the relatively sensati sensation docu-dramas that we do on "lockup" on this network are extremely highly rated. how can i get nerdland to care that this is happening? that this matters for who we are as a people? >> i think -- you know, i'm glad you're contextualizing it. we're addicted to punishment and addicted to incarcerat...