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Right. can't get to the bottom of these things without talking to rudy giuliani and understand why he was calling the office of management and budget. >> you surgeonly can't exonerate the president without talking to rudy giuliani. when you line up omb, line up the white house calls, line up the date on the timeline and the three amigos, it looks bad so rudy giuliani, if this was perfectly normal and innocent and there was some other reason for him to be on the phone with an omb official, he could sit in front of consciogressional committees and he could sit down and say here is what we were t...

Into the bidens and burisma on behalf of the president in the senate. how is that playing out? >> it's very bizarre. a week or two ago, he said he didn't want to do this. he had a quite close relationship with biden when the two served in the senate for many years and before that, graham was in the house. the interesting thing will be here, the state department, which has resisted document production in the house's investigation, does it cough up documents here? that will be something to keep an eye on. to be honest, at the moment this is a side show because the house is going to pass its impe...

More. >> final question, deadlines for document production this week, including, i believe, from the white house itself, which has said they will not cooperate. do you have a plan in place for what to do if and when they do not turn over those documents? >> chairman schiff has said it well. if they refuse to turn over the documents that, in and of itself, is an act of obstruction to an impeachment inquiry article i. third article of the nixon impeachment was obstructing congress' investigation. and secondly it would be a pretty clear, albeit, tacit, that they're guilty of something, they're hi...

Not. >> we keep getting asked the question in 923 different ways, what did she say to you? of course, we can't answer. i'll reiterate that i think every single person has come before us, has added new information and given new depth to our understanding about what went on here. i think there's enough information in the public domain that as one member, i believe it's clear that the president has committed impeachable offenses but every member is different and how it is they get to that point and whether or not they get to that point. we're not yet at the truth. as we know on an almost every 48...

Trying to get more information out of all of these players in the ukraine drama. >> okay. so i'm going to ask you the next question as if my colleague stephanie ruhle were sitting next to me because she is. in the golden age of letter-writing and asking people to do things, most people connected to the white house, donald trump, in this case rudy giuliani, have exactly the same answer to those letters. they take the letter, they read it, and then they do this, and they throw it away. what happens? >> reporter: well, if there's a subpoena this becomes potentially more complicated. these men cou...