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And, gene, i mean, it is, again, as jon meacham said. they considered this to all good news. and if it were not for the whistle-blower forcing donald trump to release the money, this all would have actually had even deeper implications which almost assuredly would have supported impeachment and possibly even conviction. >> well, that's absolutely right. it's not actually a defense legally that it didn't work. i mean, if you -- >> not at all. >> it's still bribery if -- if ru, y, you know, you're a public official and the person who is slipping you the wad of $100 bills is a federal agent, what...

Me, you go to the list and the number one is florida. >> according to the report prison inmates in florida accounted for $12.6 million in fraudulent claims, almost a third of the national total. >> not only are we number one, we are pretty ahead of the game as far as numberwise. it's actually amazing what they can do from behind bars. what they do is they might file five or ten. they might file 30 and it's just hit and miss what goes through and what doesn't go through, and they do a lot of homework and actually have people on the outside that help them, friends and family, and it's actually a...

Staff mick mulvaney in a television interview. should the president be so confident because that was the position of plenty of senate republicans when they sent a resolution to the white house that the president had to veto that you can't just go around us and find the money anyway when we say we're not going to appropriate it. should the president be so confident he'll get the money for his border wall? >> i think he should. this is to be expected. it's not a surprise that an unelected judge appointed by president obama took steps to try and stop this. and the president has been committed fro...

Them. these are areas that really could damage the moral of people who already weren't being paid during the government shutdown earlier this year. even if this doesn't go through, it shows something about the priorities of this administrati administration how they're focused on border security at the cost of other things. >> is it legal what they're doing zm. >> this is reprogramming, you probably follow this more than i do. how there are some rules about how you can move certain pieces of money around if it's for the same broader purpose like national security. they could run up against some...

I talked to the border patrol agents and they tell me they want this response to go forward with the wall. they are so afraid if this doesn't go through, they can't imagine the influx of illegal immigrants going through because they'll send the wrong message. >> tucker: yeah. i can't imagine how you feel. if i was shot three times by a drug cartel and watched my partner murdered and someoney called me a racist because i wanted a wall, i don't know how you remain so calm, but i'm certainly impressed that you doy thank you for joining us, victor avila, and for what you had to say. >> thank you f...