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The ends, the capitalization, the winning of a deal is the goal, the justice department works differently. it is the process that counts. ewussed to talk when we were prosecutors, it doesn't mat fer it's guilt or innocence at the end of the day, as long as the process was followed. that is the right result. a not guilty verdict is justice if the process was followed. that's what we're losing here, the process. >> david, let's go back to something we've been through together. that's the ability of a president to create treat create something because he is president that people begin to believe ...

Anything. you've got to present an honest story that shows warts and all because i think that's what's really compelling for people. of course, this is a story that's full of all the troubles that go with it. doesn't mat fer it's judy garland, the police, the rolling stones, whoever it is. there's going to be a shadow side, particularly in today's world, people are really interested. it's not all just shine. >> but it wasn't a one-man problem. there was -- it was one man causing the problem. >> okay. you say that. you go with that. >> let me -- >> i'll -- >> let me ask you about that darker si...