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Bending over backwards to avoid fara registering, to avoid seeming like foreign agents, to avoid i'ming like getting on the right side of the law for work with ukraine. why would they go to incredible extent to do that? that's the part of it that doesn't ring for me. >> part of this in their defense, this is not prosecuted like -- it's very rarely prosecutored. it's one of these things, well, everybody passes through this red light. you're suddenly going to pull me over for passing through the red light? and the answer is, yeah. >> on the tax evasion part of this, i am puzzled, as i just expla...

Money that would be illegal because of its origins feels like they're pushing it there. >> yes, well, they wanted to build an air tight case on this specific ill emt without getting into other subjects. and that's what they've done. if you look at the voluminous documents and lists of wire transfers that were made, it's very, you know, this would be very difficult if the underlying premise -- and they've got lawyers, you know, like michael dreben backing this up. the underlying premise is this is prosecutable. the fara violation. >> and does it make sense to you, the government's case here dep...

Passing a law that is teetering in a lot of states, your indications are that is not going to necessarily fly. republicans are going to get some of the blame, maybe all of it. >> if you go out, maybe all of the members up for reelection in 2018, a lot of republicans i speak to don't believe the democrats will get the blame. donald trump himself, when he was a private citizen in 2012 said that barack obama should stop trying to deflect blame. republicans told the public that a lot of people who voted for republicans, they said listen, can you give us the senate, the house, and the white house, ...

Term. nothing happened unless he said to do t even if don junior shook hands, he came downstairs to renegotiate if his father told him to. donald trump jr. was operating on his own, trump didn't know about it, does that ring true? >> that doesn't ring true at all. the trump children often did as their father told them to do, and anything of substance in the business didn't gel or get signed off on without donald trump senior's approval. >> timothy o'brien, thank you. please come back. appreciate you being here. >> thank you. we will be right back. a programming note. tune in for a special tr...

Help the trump team but not an intimate of team trump? >> i can't characterize his relationship, because whey know of it is just from the press. >> sure. >> so i don't know any more than anyone else. it seems to me he was hired, brought in as an expert. someone who may or may not have been involved in the campaign. clearly once it came time to govern, that is his expertise. policy foreign official worked in washington many years in the executive and legislative branch. >> let's go around the table and have you respond to two things. this idea mr. billingsley and others in the transition team o...