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Youth and masculinity and race are three of the five things he could discern. that is a problem, particularly when you have to have conversations with young black men. i used to tell my boys, doesn't run because they may think you're suspicious. now i have to say, don't walk slowly because that could mean your suspicious. what is the pace a black man can walk in america and be beyond suspicion? that's a crazy conversation to have. >> it's so fascinating that you say that because i have a young brown boy at home. he's been following this case so very closely. as a lawyer, as a former prosecutor...

What is your organizing principle that says i need to make sure that this guy does not get away because he is one of them? and what we find in the trial is that he was saying that he thought he was one of the criminals. although, what trayvon was doing was not criminal. >> you're saying you cannot take race out of one of those organizing principles. >> well, i think it is some combination of those. the only information he had was what he saw, right? so race is one of those things. youth and masculinity and race are three of the five things he could discern. that is a problem, particularly when...

In 2008. she is relentless for fighting for women, fighting for early childhood and whole host of other issues. i think she will be relentless, if she pursues those policies if she runs or doesn't run but can count on her. >> there is certainly a playbook for beating her. barack obama said it for them last time. there are a lot of democrats that might have respect for her but are looking at an opening they see in the left in the primary next time. as for the clinton scandals. you mentioned the benghazi scandal but we're starting to see a number of state department scandals whether the ambassad...

You would see people with babies at crime scenes. you would see 10 and 11-year-olds riding the bikes. we are missing the stressful impact of this. how can you go to school and be expected to concentrate if you're seeing the bloodshed and the bodies? >> you're absolutely right. how do you put together legislation that makes it safe for people in the streets? and doesn't run over the rights of law-abiding citizens who may happen to own a gun because they wish to own a gun? and the other part is how do you put together gun legislation that doesn't give an advantage to the good guys? >> if i felt ...

This point to be talking about white water and health care and dick morris and mark penn and all of these things now seem so long ago. it feels to me as if the american people have tremendously moved on in their reception of hillary clinton. i think when she needs to prove she can run a good campaign and doesn't run as a person who expects to win. one thing you have to say about hillary she makes mistakes but not the same one twice. i don't think you'll see a campaign this time if she does run that is anything like last time. >> you don't see mark penn running the campaign? >> i don't see mark...