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Instance. it doesn't serve him well and it doesn't serve the country well and, you know, i understand that both of those things were very personal matters. one involved his son-in-law and what he son-in-law wanted. another one involved an alleged relationship with a woman outside of his marriage. so we saw there was problems on issues that were very personal, chris. >> right. >> but i understand that. but it doesn't serve. there's no way to defend, and i'm not going to, the new york times story tonight assuming it's true and i have to assume it's true because the white house didn't deny it. no...

Citizen. and also using it to rile people up saying we're going to send him back to kenya, what else is it? >> so his only defense would be if he says i believe he wasn't born >> go back to africa. >> -- i believed it, if he says, i believe he wasn't born here, that's fine. then he's not owning it as a deception. but if he meant it to play along to the deception and go back to africa literally, racist? >> yes. well, i mean there's evidence. he showed you the birth certificate. why would you, why would you question that? >> why did talib apologize? >> why? why did talib apologize for what? >> c...

Son-in-law's security clearance. that he lied to you. >> the president had no involvement pertaining to my clearance or my husband's clearance. >> that is not true. so what do we do? internal memo written by chief of staff john kelly refuting it saying that the president ordered him to give kushner top secret clearance over expressed concerns from intelligence officials and people that do that job for a living. also a memo by the white house council about the same reservation. why lie? what do we do about it? great debate. jennifer and rick are here. let me push my luck. chris christie speakin...

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This now reporting tonight from "the new york times" and now matched by "the washington post" directly contradicts the president's statements that he had nothing to do with his son-in-law's security clearance, that he lied to you. now, listen to this. >> the president had no involvement pertaining to my clearance or my husband's clearance. >> that is not true. so what do we do? proof, internal memo reportedly written by former chief of staff john kelly refuting it. saying that the president ordered him to give kushner top secret clearance over expressed concerns from intelligence officials and...