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Himself, think i'd hire a new lawyer. >> doesn't seem to be selling to senator grassley. >> no, doesn't seem to have made the sale. you know, this is -- if you're a lawyer, if you do this stuff, if dohis stuff pretty regularly, if you've watched it for years on the judiciary committee like chairman grassley has, this is a little bit -- i don't know how to say it any other way, this is bizarro law, not real law. >> do you anticipate -- can you anticipate a world in which they actually this? part of what is so strange is assertions from the white house there has been trial balloons, flags they'r...

Kinds of claims being made, even if not in the commission of acts. he is not actually pardoning himself in this sort of general conceptual sense? >> it's probably the kind of thing we should look into. i'm hoping that there will be some hearings on this so we can explore it a little bit. but it just seems, again, what i said before, this is not regular law. this is sort of bizarro law. if his lawyers really believed all this stuff, why weren't they saying it a year ago? i think we have kind of squid ink lawyering happening as potentially the president approaches his interview by mueller or his...