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Peril, which is one of the reasons we have institutional norms that generally speaking prevent the president from dealing directly with the united states attorney's office with regard to an investigation. the president must go through the -- the norm is to go through the white house counsel. >> here you have him -- >> deals with the deputy attorney general and the deputy attorney general then deals with the u.s. attorney's office. >> that didn't happen here. the question is what happens if the president -- i believe the a.g. said today, nobody told me to do anything. >> right. so why are we ta...

Rudy's efforts with ukraine? >> no, that was not something i was familiar with or involved with at all. >> so you weren't brought in for legal advice -- >> i will never discuss what legal advice i give the president of the united states, who is my client. so i'm not going to answer that question. but i will tell you this was not something i was involved in. i didn't know the players of who was doing what here. this is something the fair was involved with. he understood the ins and outs with. this is not something i deal with. i've been busy on other matters as well, as you know, the last coupl...

Thing. can i -- >> i think you have to be very careful about that? >> might i respond? >> i think with regard to the error in judgment, i think you're unwise to travel down that road because it's filled and fraught with all kinds of peril, which is one of the reasons we have institutional norms that generally speaking prevent the president from dealing directly with the united states attorney a office with regard to an investigation. the president must go through the -- the norm is to go through the white house counsel. >> here you have him -- >> deals with the deputy attorney general and the ...

The rest of their lives. we need to become a modern society. we need to honor workers' rights, the right to unionize, the right to establish worker cooperatives, and we also need to join the international community by signing and ratifying the u.n. convent on economic, social, and cultural rights. i mean we need to catch up to the rest of the world, and then we need to lead the rest of the world not just on climate change, but on social issues and on economic issues so that we can actually act like a humanity that is existing in the 21st century. >> give me a quick take on the obvious pushback...

Did the president know? did he not know? was the state department involved? who gave different stories about holding up the funding, why was the a.g. involved? >> hold it. has there been any evidence of anything involving the aj.g., n? >> other than the president offering him up as hired help to the president of ukraine. >> you had rudy giuliani on you. >> this has been an issue that rudy has been very clear about -- >> he's been concerned about it for a long time. he hasn't been that clear. but he's been concerned about it. the president offered up the a.g. as hired help to the president of u...