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What bernie sanders is saying. his fund-raising numbers were really remarkable. and what the difference is, he's tapping into kind of the grassroots donor level whereas hillary clinton has focused a lot of her time and energy on fund-raisers and really cultivating that establishment support. sanders can really go back to these donors again and again because they are giving him those small donations. and that suggests to me that he does have a lot of passion behind those numbers. >> that's what we saw, the small donations over and over again in the 2008 campaign. perhaps history may not repeat ...

Question and the romney war chest and the fact that it is not as formidable, perhaps, as we thought it might be given where he is numbers wise in terms of fund-raising and actually the donor base he's looking at which is high dollar donors may be getting towards maxing out and in terms of small donors those are giving less than $200 in august, romney had 9.4 million in small doughtations, obama had 25.1. >> that is a significant figure. that has been an issue, trying to build out the small donor model. they've had a tremendous amount of success at the high donor level. surprising to me how muc...

In the obama campaign was coming from big old-style donors, and -- and, you know, obviously they are doing that now, but the small donor level, he's way ahead of where they were four years ago, and they are not going to have a problem raising money. the problem is that the other side is going to raise just as much. it's a zero sum game, and in this environment it's how you spend that money. they have to be the forces of reform. otherwise the sweep of change is going to be -- is going to follow not the money but the mood of the country. >> well, i think that is going to be an interesting race w...