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Trial is very sad when you look at what's going on there. i think it's a very sad day for our country. he worked for me for a very short period of time, but you know what, it happens to be a very good person. and i think it's very sad what they've done to paul manafort. >> okay, he was his campaign chairman for many months. april, the point is he dangling out again a pardon to paul manafort. hey, buddy, if you get sentenced to 100 years, 150 years, whatever it is, don't flip. i'm telling you. is he sending a message there or not? >> well, let me say this, the last words of the president, you k...

>> that makes it interesting. if this is a trial balloon, michael cohen getting the message out there that i have got problems and this could go the wrong way, tell me how you see this playing out. because it has to be the worst news possible after donald trump crowin about his north korea summit that maybe michael cohen's considering flipping. l >> well, let's go to a number of different points here. one is trump sent out a signal a lot earlier when he said i don't see it that michael cohen is going to flip. he said that. that was a central. michael cohen, don't flip. >> don't flip. >> i mean...

True legal advice. there is a distinction. i think cohen is learning that the hard way. >> what liz holtzman is the best route for the president right now? we have to keep in context there is a lot going on for paul manafort. every time paul manafort reaches outside of the realm in which he is supposed to stay becau he is charged with federal crimes he g in trouble for it. he gets smacked. may have his bail revoked. the president h people who i think it's important to realize, paul manafort was in that all important meeting we are always talking about in trump tower. and michael cohen his atto...

You have potential on michael cohen's part you have potential professional ethics violations as well. we don't know the whole story here. >> right. >> so in could be other things going on. >> but ultimately until now, michael cohen has been denying he was reimbursed for this, denying all sorts of things. is this trump sending him a message through rudy giuliani that it wasn't your fault, this wasn't your transaction, don't flip on us. >> well, i think it's quite clear that trump doesn't want him to thflip. i want to go focus on that for a second. because as president of the united states, his ...

President trump to pardoning his personal attorney, michael cohen. do you see any indications that the president would not pardon cohen? >> well, it's very hard to say, i mean, i -- you know, he is obviously dangling a pardon before michael cohen, in all but explicit tirms, but michael cohen hasn't been indicted yet and he may never be, so, there may be no reason to pardon him. but, you know, it is worth pausing to consider, you know, again, what it would be like if hillary clinton were president of the united states and one of her top aides was under criminal investigation and she was tweetin...