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One of the tools to fight that kind of else legality and pain is a bored wall. >> you apply that rational to no other type of crime prevention in this country. the idea that something is 100% preventable is poverty. hunger in the richest country in the world. no urgency like that on those issues though. you get people jobs. you create programs and. bring the economy up the way you said you were going to. >> that's a great strategy there. you starve these countries. then you create environments on the ground where they can blow up. then you stand back and watch them burn. what are we going to d...

If he cuts aid to them. come on, steve. >> blaming the united states for the problems of central america -- >> i'm not doing that. don't spin me on my own show. i'm saying cutting funding will make it worse. this debate is going to continue, unfortunately. steve, thank you for joining. paul, as always. it doesn't look like this is going to end any time soon so we have to keep talking and see where there can be space for progress. huge turn. there's not a lot happening in d.c. there's no movement yet on the government shutdown. now you have michael cohen saying i can can't testify on capitol ...

Please don't spin something not said by the president. >> he did say last night you're going to see more next two weeks. we should see. >> jack, going to ask you, do you actually think that president obama wiretapped trump tower? >> i don't think president obama did. but i think it's possible that under his watch some of his agencies were doing surveillance, probably broad, and before he left office he did spread the word throughout different agencies -- >> if people wereurveilled under the obama presidency, it's common, had intelligence experts here, for people who are russian, russian ambass...

Who tapped flynn's phone, but you are not concerned about a series of interactions between the trump campaign and russia? >> bill: who said i am not concerned about that?ri i have said many times i want to get to the bottom of that. but i also believe clapper and senator cotton, who said -- we haven't seen anything. don't you believe them? >> they said there was no fisa warrant on trump tower. i can believe that. n >> bill: clapper clearly said, and i know you heard it, so, don't spin, there is no evidence produced to him of collusion between the trump campaign and russia. he said clear as day...

This. do you really want there to be congressional investigation of who tapped flynn's phone, but you are not concerned about a series of interactions between the trump campaign and russia? >> bill: who said i am not concerned about that? i have said many times i want to get to the bottom of that. but i also believe clapper and senator cotton, who said -- don't you believe them? >> they said there was no fisa warrant on trump tower. i can believe that. >> bill: clapper clearly said, and i know you heard it, so, don't spin, there is no evidence produced to him of collusion between the trump cam...