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I really am not really interested in characters who aren't outsiders. i think i sort of group up with an outer's perspective for a variety of reasons, and i still have it. >> as writer i love writing about characters who are misfits. >> i find characters who are insiders, getting it right, doing the right thing, are well adjusted and motivated and winners -- >> life's winners are not that interesting to me. >> i just think they're really boring. >> we are in the age of the nerds, people who all look up to, someone like bill gates, one of the most famous americans, he's this dorky kid from seat...

As a brother, growing up as a kid? >> i'll tell you right now, actually, there's a picture in this room of him, that he gave -- there it is. and it says, dear jean, don't deny you did it. this was right after he was president. and so he gave it to me personally and i thought, isn't that wonderful that he recognized i made all these speeches for him. and then, of course, i had a little peek at pat's. dear pat, don't deny you did it. so he said to everyone, don't deny you did it. we were all so happy, and then we found out we were all being congratulated. >> you know all the secrets when he was ...