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Have to be overly strong personality. with the most important leadership quality of the chief of staff? >> i think interestingly, temperament is a big part of the job. andy card certainly, judge bolton, both popular, both good at motivating the troops. jim baker under ronald reagan and leon panetta under bill clinton i would say were made with the two chiefs of the 20th century because they were grounded. they were grown-ups. they've been around the block. they knew how to go to the president and give him a tough message. that has a lot to do with successful in the job. >> dana: i think that r...

But that was a time, remember that we're on the verge of a great depression. the auto industry was about to go belly up, had two wars in progress. barack obama needed somebody who could get stuff done on capitol hill. nobody knew the hill better than ron. nobody knew how to take the hill. >> dana: and the press. >> managing the message is also as you well know, it's critical. the white house chief's job to make sure that everyone's on the same page. >> dana: driving the agenda. any advice you would offer to president trump or even to the current chief of staff who they're nearing the end of th...