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That she's too cautious when it comes to progressive politics. what do you say? >> well, chuck, we knew each other back in the '90s when i worked for hillary clinton, and let's just remember that hillary clinton not being progressive enough was not quite what people said about her. this is someone who has been fighting for progressive issues, fighting for families, for children, her whole life, starting with her time at the children's defense fund. and i was re-reading her back, remember way back in the '90s, she was talking about things like paid leave and childcare, some of these progressive...

Candidates as well as for bernie sanders. i mean it's, i think, a bit unfair for nbc to just go and give this prime slot to hillary clinton and part of it whether you start seeing the s&l skit, the campaign might want to invest money and hire the writers to maybe help her write a speech for her campaign. that surely made her look very soft. >> here's the funny thing. it didn't even help hillary. i watched the s&l thing. it reit rates how disconnected and not funny she is. she comes across as the awkward kid that wants to be the cool kid. that desperateness makes you not the cool kid. >> i thou...