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Trees with all the detail coming out here. great point, jonathan, and eli, multiple sources saying now that one of the people trying to influence cassidy hutchinson testimony did so in the form of her former boss mark meadows. laying out that for us. could that mean trouble for meadows? >> well, first of all, kate, in my prosecutorial view, those allegations made by cassidy hutchinson are absolutely across the line, i believe witness tampering. if your intent is to influence in any way the testimony, that can be witness tampering as well. now there's three parties here, there's cassidy hutchin...

>> david, you don't know mark meadows but do know how donald trump operates and his pattern of behavior, often using intermediaries to intimidate or influence others, heard about others like michael cohen talked about this often. how has he been able to get away with this for so long, even aside from connecting him with the intimidation suggested here? >> well he's been remarkably successful in avoiding accountability, kate. donald uses lots of different strategies. when he was in business, would tear up his calendar at the end of the months, bragged, once, i don't use email because judges kno...

Pat cipollone, who has been subpoenaed by the committee we're told is willing to testify in some limited fashion, potentially behind the scenes and also warned about trump going to the capitol that it could open up to all sorts of potential criminal exposure. >> manu, thank you so much for that, "outfront" with me now, eli honig former u.s. district attorney for district of new york and former secret service agent, and pulitzer prize winning journalist who covered trump over 30 years. so you have these different services telling a similar account to what hutchinson testified to, how does this ...

In doing so, nieeding a opportunity attorney to move forward as we've seen play out. so based on what you know, are you surprised to hear she was one of the people on the receiving end of these messages? >> i wasn't surprised. in fact, i kind of expect happened when congresswoman cheney read through those that at least one had gone to cassidy. when we spoke, and i don't want to betray her confidence but the sense i got was somebody who didn't feel empowered to share what they knew in their knowledge and there was a level of intimidation there. one thing i want to know, you know, eli's a lawyer...

Former trump white house council pat cipelloni, subpoenaed by this committee and remains to be seen if cipelloni cipelloni will be seen by the panel, may be in some limited transcribed interview, but those efforts continue as the committee presses forward. >> and even after that blockbuster hearing, pressing forward with another deposition today. good to see, thanks so much, gloria borger, eli honig, a and alyssa griffin, thank you for being here. eli, first on the possible witness tampering, how much trouble could this now mean for the people around donald trump and donald trump himself if th...