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Now? he is not participating when they've offered to have him participate? i think that is not wayne-win for him. >> not a win-win for him. katie, i'm curious to get your perspective on that. the white house, this is stage they could have participated. they elected no the to. what do you make of not engaging? >> putting aside the distraction of the signature which very large, this whole sharpy epidemic going on. it's like crayon. pat, i see you. i know it came from you. very obvious. the letter doesn't actually say we're not going to do it. it just screams about process, right? and this has be...

I think the best defense is a strong offense, they say. and we just really haven't seen that with this administration. i've noted it before. with he can't really point to major policy shifts that this administration has been able to accomplish. so at the moment, we just kind of see them always being reactive to things. and they haven't given the american people to really anything else to really focus on. i do think it's spun out of control. and the folks who work for president trump are at the mercy of their principle and their principle does not want to face the music. >> very quickly, eli, p...

It's always that people just don't like me. it's personal. if the president can succeed in it getting enough americans to view this as just a partisan matter, oh, it's only partisan, that's how he sort of inoculates had imself against further consequences because all the republicans in the senate will say oh, this is an unfair process. they're out to get him. they can point to some comment about some democratic lawmaker who said we want to impeach him early on and there were some of the comments. that's the sort of evidence that they will use to stand up this idea that, see, none of this is le...