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This. >> actugiuliani has made a poin michael cohen is a known liar compared to my client donald trump who is credible. it makes no sense. that being said -- >> you just won. can you rest your case. >> the question -- i talked to a lot of people about this who made the point and i would like to take this to joyce, that if news of this trump tower meeting came out now as opposed to a year ago or whenever it came out that we would be like in a crisis. this is insane. this is crazy. this is collusion. but we've grown numb to this. joyce, as a pure legal matter, let's say trump did know about it. ...

Investigate and try to find. it is without question natural evidence on its face, if it was supported would be an impeachable offense. that would be an article of impeachment no question about it. whether it gets over the line in a courtroom, is another matter and it's always been another matter. people have to separate channels in their head as opposed to impeachable which is very different. this is going to come down to the other people in the room, we don't yet know who those people are. but we do know that people who might be in that room like hope hicks have already spoken to robert muell...

Robert mueller asks you this question if he does. your answer can be, did you hear donald trump say that and donald trump jr. say that to donald trump your answer is yes, no or i don't recall. so one reason on the giuliani side of this case why you might want this out there is it is now extremely difficult for the trump-giuliani side of the case to communicate directly to all the other witnesses who could have been in that room. so getting this out there is saying to them, you have to make a decision on your answer. is it yes, no or i don't recall. it's warning them. and the more of them who k...

Also -- >> the trump organization cfo, yes. >> that, and i've said it from the beginning. this is going to come back to 15, 20, 30 years of slimy, dishonest, underhanded business dealings. dhaect wi connect that with russia and other things we haven't even talked about. >> john? >> this isn't the first time we've heard assertion from michael cohen. steve bannon acknowledged -- he wasn't in the trump campaign at the time, but formed speculation and retroactive informed speculation, another person super close to donald trump basically has direct knowledge, claims to have direct knowledge or beli...

It's tragic. >> can i put a fine point on what you said. michael cohen told you some time ago that donald trump knew about the june 2016 meeting before it happened? >> yes. >> let's just say as we mentioned in the last hour we had a previous account, which is steve bannon's account where steve bannon said effectively of course donald trump knew about this meeting, of course the russians were marched up to donald trump's office by donald trump jr. we know steve bannon was not present. steve bannon knows donald trump really well and knows the dynamics of what are the kinds of things that don't j...