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Think he lied about things. the full affect was to communicate that had mueller found sufficient evidence, he would have said so or made a charging recommendation and mueller very specifically today, it seemed to me, wanted to push back more on that than anything else. what did you think? >> i think that's true. i think if we can get to the emphasis mueller put on the other activities that russia did, which are in volume one, which are outreaches to trump, which are part of the russian effort, but on the obstruction thing, absolutely. he made it -- mueller made it clear today that it was about...

All this parsing that we have gotten electric bill barr. it is remarkable. in a technical sense, i don't think he lied about things. but the full affect was to communicate that had mueller found sufficient evidence, he would have said so or made a charging recommendation and mueller very specifically today, it seemed to me, wanted to push back more on that than anything else. what did you think? >> i think that's true. i think if we can get to the emphasis mueller put on the other activities that russia did, which are in volume one, which are outreaches to trump, which are part of the russian ...

Former assistant for counter intelligence at the fbi. we're going to talk a little bit about the emphasis mueller put on the russian interference campaign that he busted. but keeping julia in play here, i doubt you've gotten a hold of this yet. what is your understanding, frank, of what it means when we have a document like this that is trying to spotlight a public claim mr. barr made that would appear to lean into the idea that the mueller report, according to barr, didn't find enough to charge and a mueller statement that seems to cut against that? >> so it's now more clearer than ever, even...