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And it has a complicated rights deal with music studios, record labels, artists that has basically bled into its podcast offering, and that they try to use podcast as maybe a way of simplifying that difficult rights relationship. but it hasn't worked. and spotify needs to prove that it's going to be a profitable company in the next few years. otherwise, its investors are going to start to ask a lot, lot more and not more interrogatory questions. so those issues are specific to spotify. arielle, more broadly on podcasts, presumably you look across the us market and see lots of podcasts which ar...

And it has a complicated rights deal with music studios, record labels, artists, that has basically bled into its podcast offering, and they try to use podcasts as maybe a way of simplifying that difficult rights relationship. but it hasn't worked. and spotify needs to prove that it's going to be a profitable company in the next few years. otherwise, its investors are going to start to ask a lot, lot more and lot more interrogatory questions. so those issues are specific to spotify. arielle, more broadly on podcasts, presumably you look across the us market and see lots of podcasts which are m...

Offering — some people listening might be thinking, well, if they're not making money, who can? it's100% not a podcast problem. this is a spotify problem. spotify is not making money. it has never made money. and it has a complicated rights deal with music studios, record labels, artists that has basically bled into its podcast offering, and they try to use podcasts as maybe a way of simplifying that difficult rights relationship. but it hasn't worked. and spotify needs to prove that it's going to be a profitable company in the next few years. otherwise, its investors are going to start to a...

Well, if they're not making money, who can? it's100% not a podcast problem. this is a spotify problem. spotify is not making money. it has never made money. and it has a complicated rights deal with music studios, record labels, artists that has basically bled into its podcast offering, and that they try to use podcast as maybe a way of simplifying that difficult rights relationship. but it hasn't worked. and spotify needs to prove that it's going to be a profitable company in the next few years. otherwise, its investors are going to start to ask a lot, lot more and not more interrogatory ques...