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Phrase, the denazi fication. captain wells, when do you think strategy of encircling cities begins to take hold? do you think that the russian military will begin to take control of some of the population centers, or are they out running their supply lines here? >> thank you very much. and picking up on matt's point and your questions. at mr. putin, i think he is really overreached with regard to his attack on ukraine. looking at encirclement of kyiv is most likely outcome, having the ukrainians valiantly protecting kyiv, i believe that it is an opportunity for west and united states and u.k. ...

"new york post" columnist. >> and captain, if i could come to you first. is kyiv go ing to fall here? is it inevitable? >> i don't see it as inevitable as long as president zelenskyy continues to lead, i don't think he will leave kyiv. i think that russians in terms of their tactics come from west of the river. and from the west, they continue to achieve encircle ment, that will be the outcome it is a siege, it will be protracted and we will have guerrilla warfare and continued bloodshed. >> matthew, what is the potential problem there for putin. if this drags on. if this is a pro -- pro track...