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Realistic prospect of the ukrainians agreeing to something -- you know, something like that, north/south korea kind of analog. now, i guess you could have an armistice, which is still the case in korea. the war there has never ended, even though the hostilities stopped in july of 1953, but it's still an armistice or a ceasefire. maybe that's a possibility where they don't acknowledge the de facto situation. >> i think that's exactly right. i mean, when we look at the negotiated solution options here, we actually are further apart now than we have been, i think, you know, weeks ago. and that's ...

Have victory as an end state. >> and that was mark hertling. let's bring in atika shubert. she is following this story. she is in valencia, spain. so, atika, i spoke with a member of parliament, ukrainian member of parliament, who believes this change sort of strategic goal nuan announced by the russians isn't about finding a way out of the conflict but it's about slowing it down so that they can continue their kind of relentless at a slower pace encirclement of cities and occupation of as much territory as possible. >> yeah, well we don't know what it's going to mean on the ground yet. but it...

And is it sustainable on both sides is. if you're the ukrainians, you've got to come up with an end state that you can sustain, and then the russians are looking at what might they be able to sustain or not sustain. and, quite honestly, that has been one of the big challenges for the russians. they have yet to be able to consolidate gains in a sustainable manner. arthel: when you say sustain, i think you mean in terms of ruling, because ukraine was fine before putin stepped in. but let me ask you this, even, you know, is it even possible for a split ukraine to exist, you know, with a portion u...

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