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Are waging against... that's my point. you are still vulnerable to the energy war. yes, we're still vulnerable, and that's why, again, we have to do this very difficultjob to become energy independent, to be stronger, because, of course, should we be as strong as we would like it to be, we would not be discussing now this military threat. they would not even dare to, again, scare the whole world with this full—scale war against ukraine. but it's a deeper issue than just saying to me, "ah, well, you know, we're undergoing a transition and we will be stronger in energy terms as well as...", yo...

We're undergoing a transition and we will be stronger in energy terms as well as...", you know, "..strengthening ourselves in military terms. you've got a big cultural problem in ukraine. you are, according to all of the independent analysis, a country that is ravaged by endemic corruption, which goes to the very heart of government and your corporate life, and that isn't changing. that weakens your country terribly, doesn't it? it is changing. in 2014, again, when i came back to naftogaz, it was the biggest source of corruption in ukraine, and this corruption was based on imports of russian g...

Again, we cannot do these, again, miracles, wonders, overnight. and the coal, the coal that you get, largely from territories which have very close relations with vladimir putin? now we are buying it from south africa and from the united states. what about the kazakh coal you needed and you couldn't get? we could not get it, so that's why we're not getting it, the russians blocked it. it's another example of the energy war they are waging against... that's my point. you are still vulnerable to the energy war. yes, we're still vulnerable, and that's why, again, we have to do this very difficult...

People dying in that small country. a lot of people are looking at france and in germany, they have been trying to voice some kind of assertiveness but they are very dependent in energy terms. the big shift -- shift taking place in britain. in britain, david cameron said that the city of london which is gets a lot of russian money is in some ways -- >> billionaires running around. >> some called it a casino for the russian billionaires. >> the city of london might have to live without russian money if we want to get serious about this. so there are some signs things are beginning to change. >>...