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Pushing them into poverty. doug, though, the number in north carolina, 436,000? i can't imagine that those are all cases where people have a poverty issue. are some people just deadbeats, not paying the fines? what do you do with this law? >> you totally read my mind. first a little context. 43 states currently have this type of statute, which, you know, results in revocation or suspension of a driver's license for failure to pay the fine. to your point, i understand what eric's saying, and he's right, if it targets somebody who shutly cannot pay the fine, that's one issue. mixing apples and o...

Type of means for those who can't afford it. >> shannon: doug, i know that the aclu said, too, one of the problems they have is there's never a hearing. so there can be a determination about whether or not somebody can actually afford it. you guys know better than anyone, that the courts are so clogged, trying to get cases through, it's a really difficult thing. but doug, would you be open to something like that? another layer to this law that would say, then we're also going to hold a hearing to see whether you have the means to pay it? >> the real essence of the lawsuit, and i did scan throu...

Eric, what's the deal? >> they're being very unfair to poor people, and people who don't have a lot of money. because what they do is they'll put someone in court, say you're fined $400, you have 40 days to pay it. who can come up with $400 within a month to pay those fines. what they tell people, if you don't pay the fine, then not only do you lose your license, but then you get additional fines. so then that person can't go to work to get the money to pay the fines. it's a revolving door, almost like a debtor's prison which is unconstitutional. just like a debtor's prison to so many people w...

Have inappropriate requests of law enforcement by the president, going back to the first days of this administration. i think we're at one of the most dangerous times for the mueller probe. you have not just the president's anger, nervousness, fear, but you also have these reports in the last few weeks that the president is increasingly comfortable that he knows how to do this job and he doesn't want people telling him no. he shouldn't take rash actions. when you combine those two trends, it puts us on a perilous path and potentially a a dangerous set of actions from the president in the next ...

Firing of mccabe and is almost certainly speculating about it. it's something he's interested? >> what happens if that happens? what happens inside the justice department if that happens? do you think rosenstein will do it? >> i don't think so. i think the president would have to fire his way down the line to find someone who did. i think the president is testing the waters, seeing if republicans push back on him. if he doesn't hear that kind of push back, you'll see him move. >> eric guster, what happens from a legal standpoint? is that an additional obstruction of justice? >> it's obstructio...