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Told the president's attorney a couple of weeks after white house counsel don mcgahn, a few weeks after the election was decided was that you don't have to follow the traditions and norms of washington. but those evolved as a result of a lot of hard lessons people learned and a lot of pain that people went through. when you play games and deviate from that you're taking a big risk. >> what did you see this week that gave you an aha, that's why he didn't want to sign the disclosure statement, that's why they gave me a tough time about the ethics disclosures forms? >> yeah, well, you know, the s...

We're seeing one unprecedented event after another. but there's only so much you can do to deviate from the way people do things in washington before the chickens come home to roost. and that's because the ways people do things have evolved as a result of a lot of hard lessons. and one of the first things i told the president's attorney a couple of weeks after white house counsel don mcgahn, a few weeks after the election was decided was that you don't have to follow the traditions and norms of washington. but those evolved as a result of a lot of hard lessons people learned and a lot of pain ...