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donald trump was �*detached from reality.�* his former attorney—general, william barr, said he showed more interest in "crazy stuff" than facts. mr trump has called the investigation "a sham." now on bbc news, it's hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. the rupture in relations between most of europe and russia since vladimir putin's invasion of ukraine has left european governments scrambling to end their dependence on moscow's oil and gas. it turns out there was another arena in which europe had become dangerously dependent on russia — space. without russian roc...

europe's short—term space plans are now in disarray. my guest isjosef aschbacher, director general of the european space agency. is europe destined to be an also—ran in the space race? josef aschbacher, welcome to hardtalk. thank you, thank you for having me. let's start where i started in that introduction — your relationship with russia. it has exposed, has it not, the war with ukraine, the degree to which you've had to sever ties with the russian space agency? it's exposed a dangerous over reliance on cooperation with moscow? i mean, it is true that with the invasion of russ...

which unionists don't like because it, in effect, puts a border down the irish sea. now on bbc news, here's hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. the rupture in relations between most of europe and russia since vladimir putin's invasion of ukraine has left european governments scrambling to end their dependence on moscow's oil and gas. it turns out there was another arena in which europe had become dangerously dependent on russia — space. without russian rockets and other space know—how, europe's short—term space plans are now in disarray. my guest isjosef aschbach...

are now in disarray. my guest isjosef aschbacher, director general of the european space agency. is europe destined to be an also—ran in the space race? josef aschbacher, welcome to hardtalk. thank you. thank you for having me. let's start where i started in that introduction — your relationship with russia. it has exposed, has it not, the war with ukraine, the degree to which you've had to sever ties with the russian space agency? it's exposed a dangerous overreliance on cooperation with moscow? i mean, it is true that with the invasion of russia in ukraine, it was a wake up cal...

On the exomars rover project and continuing to cooperate with russia when it comes to the international space station? as we speak to each other today, there is an esa italian astronaut on the international space station working alongside two russian astronauts, delivered to the space station by a russian rocket. you know, you're saying that's fine and we'll go on doing it. in fact, i believe you're saying we want to continue that cooperation all the way through to 2030, despite what putin's doing in ukraine. so how come you can continue to do that and have to abandon the mars mission? let me ...