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With nuclear threats. >> right. >> but the reality is putin does have nuclear weapons. no one knows if he will use them or not. is there a real risk to the u.s. turning up in rhetoric. >> there is a risk to not turning up the rhetoric as well. the rhetoric has been elevated because the threat is so dangerous. you talked about depravity on the part of the russians. we'd have to go to the devil's dictionary to find a word that's adequately describe what's taking place. but what he lavrov uses cavalierly or intentionally with intent to invite fear, he is using a -- what i would call an extension ...

If you go to nuclear you can't predict the consequences. but they could be an extinction level event that we have not seen before. certainly since the end of world war ii. it mass to be condemned i'm glad secretary austin condemned it and also general milley. . it has to be condemned roe punitively. >> i want to get this in before we're done. and democratic senator joe manchin predicting the u.s. will get further pulled into the war saying it could be engagements. do you see that happening, secretary? >> potentially we could become more involved, surely if the russiao russians use a nuclear we...

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We need to be logical about it. dan: last question for you. say we do detect one of these things. is there technology out there, nuclear weapons, whatever it may be, is there any way to divert them from our path? do we have that? >> if you are talking about an extinction level event that borders miles in diameter. we are get together point we can take something like that apart and the fragments can miss the earth. it's a question of time scale. if you knew it was coming a century in advance. you might bump it off course. you could tear it apart and spread the fragments. we are just coming to t...

Tell them it's a good move to prepare to defend allies who were in nato but taking off the table the option to put boots on the ground inside ukraine? >> well, i don't think you want to put troops on the ground in ukraine. then you are looking at direct conflict and ukraine is not a member of nato, they do not fall under article 5 and i think there is a little bit of an overreaction on america's part to do this. we are arrayed strongly in nato anyway, and you are looking at putin and saying you are not going to do an extinction level event. him going into nato, that's what it is. he would be f...