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This must be untrue. do you think that that plays into the way that this particular story was dismissed? i think it definitely plays into it. i mean, i know i myself when i began looking at it, was very nervous for that precise reason, i thought it probably was conspiracy theory, and the more i looked, the more i became convinced that there was a theory that deserved to be examined and that it was wrong that it was being stifled and silenced, and i think if a fact checking organisation, as you say, didn't look at the evidence and simply went with the idea that it was conspiracy theory, itjust ...

We are going to be talking about that and more a bit later with claire milne who is the acting editor of full fact, the uk fact=checking organisation and ian birrell who is a contributing editor of the mail on sunday. let's start with that pegasus project which has been making headlines all week. laurent richard is the director and founder of forbidden stories, the ngo which got hold of this leaked list of 50,000 possible targets for surveillance, and paul lewis is head of investigations at the guardian which is one of the partners of the pegasus project. laurent, before we get into how you co...

About that and more a bit later with claire milne who is the acting editor of full fact, the uk fact=checking organisation and ian birrell who is a contributing editor of the mail on sunday. let's start with that pegasus project which has been making headlines all week. laurent richard is the director and founder of forbidden stories, the ngo which got hold of this leaked list of 50,000 possible targets for surveillance, and paul lewis is head of investigations at the guardian which is one of the partners of the pegasus project. laurent, before we get into how you coordinated all of this and w...

I think it definitely plays into it. i mean, i know i myself when i began looking at it, was very nervous for that precise reason, i thought it probably was conspiracy theory, and the more i looked, the more i became convinced that there was a theory that deserved to be examined and that it was wrong that it was being stifled and silenced, and i think if a fact checking organisation, as you say, didn't look at the evidence and simply went with the idea that it was conspiracy theory, itjust shows it is not a valid fact checking organisation because there are no facts to say that the laboratory ...

We are joined by some of thejournalists behind it. also today, the role that specialist fact checkers play in journalism. in the last 18 months, this has been a story of what is and is not true. some stories of course are easy to disprove. the vaccine does not contain a microchip from bill gates, but how do we navigate the grey areas? donald trump's claim for example that covid—i9 could come from a chinese laboratory was widely branded as a conspiracy theory by the media and you could not share it on some social media platforms, but that changed a few weeks ago when president biden said that...