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What it really meant was someone who is abusing power. and so, in other words, you know, the president could declare that he's going to nuke canada tomorrow, but there's no law against nuking canada, but that would be a high crime and misdemeanor that certainly would be prosecuted. the problem with this whole high crimes and misdemeanor and the whole idea of impeachment is that, you know, if the economy was tanking and people were doing terrible and unemployment was high, i suspect the support for impeachment would probably be much greater. plus, we have this hyperpartisanship and we have such...

Judiciary committee, they will have all of those people that the president has refused to allow to testify to come forth to now show that he's committed no crimes. >> but, sir, can the president really claim that he's done nothing wrong anymore? don't the facts far outweigh that kind of a defense? isn't it now about whether or not what he did rises to the level of impeachment? >> well, yes. i think the constitution's clear, bribery and treason are spelled out in the constitution. but here's what i was trying to say, alex, and that is that the senate is practicing politics over all else. and th...

Doesn't need to impress them. but compared to the alternative, especially after the health scare he's had recently, it serves his interests to be out there. but it is not convincing at all. it's quite plain from the first three years of donald trump's presidency, he's not that much interested in the job itself, in the job of being president. his principal concern now -- that's why the key word in anne's previous answer was calculated -- his key concern now is himself and trying to position himself for what's going to be a very bad run of news in impeachment in the senate trial. i don't think a...

Witnesses or if the president intends to have counsel present. the dilemma, of course, alex, is that the president, the white house, his allies, have said they don't believe this has been a legitimate process, and so it seems unlikely that they would want to engage. and yet, at the same time, they have also complained about not being a part of the process and afforded rights. so, he's in that middle ground of having to decide how much does he want to go all in on fighting impeachment, where impeachment is happening, or if he wants to sort of stay out of it and fight it more politically outside...

Very much, he, the president, feels very much that he's been treated unfairly, and he thinks he is his own best defense and he wants to get out there and make that defense but is being told really pretty universally not to do so and to keep doing what he is doing, which is going out and being president. >> okay. let's get to what we expect with wednesday, john, because as i mentioned earlier, it is the judiciary committee's first public hearing. what do democrats hope to achieve? what are they expecting from that day? >> well, as kelly said in the setup piece, it's kind of an academic discussi...