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MSNBC Katy Tur Reports November 19, 2021 19:58:00

As i said, it s the longest jury i ve ever had out. wow. can i go home? go home. anything else we haven t asked you? mark, do you think he ll ever talk. that was mark richards, the defense attorney for kyle rittenhouse, taking quite a long list of questions there. julius, i was struck by something that he said relatively early on, when asked about why he put kyle rittenhouse on the stand. he said he had to put him on, it wasn t a close call and they did a couple of mock juris and found that the jury results were markedly better when rittenhouse m testified. that surprised me. i didn t realize that defense attorneys would do something like that. it doesn t happen in every case, but i suspect that kyle rittenhouse s defense team had some resources that maybe normal clients don t usually have access to. but it was a good move. if you have the resources and you can do something like that, ....

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MSNBC Katy Tur Reports November 19, 2021 19:12:00

Rittenhouse supposedly pointed his gun at the zaminskys, provoking the attack by joseph rosenbaum, it was fuzzy, it wasn t clear. this isn t an even playing field where it s 50/50. this is a situation where the state has the burden of proof. they have to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt. when i put that in layman s terms, i would say it s maybe 95% convinced. the question is was the jury 95% convinced that kyle rittenhouse provoked the attack by joseph rosenbaum? well, i m not sure all of us can say that that video that there was so much talk about, and how hard it was to zoom in, that it was so clear to everyone. so it doesn t surprise me that this jury came back with a not guilty verdict because if they re not convinced beyond a reasonable doubt, the verdicts must go in the defendant s favor. shaq, i hear you have some more color from inside the courtroom, what the jury did as the verdict was being read. ....

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MSNBC Katy Tur Reports November 19, 2021 19:26:00

Diverse judiciary. but judge schroeder i think personally try to do his best here. i can t say i agreed with all the decisions he made in this case. whether the decisions he made were good for appeal, it doesn t make a difference anymore because mr. rittenhouse was acquitted. let us bring in university of alabama law professor and former u.s. attorney joyce vance. joyce, you and i have been talking about this case now for a few days. i want to get your sense of what could have gone on behind the scenes. what could have gone on that we did not see? i know there were cameras in the courtroom, but there were moments that were not televised. what could have happened that might have influenced this case? well, the devil is always in the detail in these cases. particularly with jury verdicts where trials happen under a microscope, it s awfully easy for us to dissect them afterwards. the people who know everything that happened are the people in the courtroom, the jury. and even with acce ....

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MSNBC Hallie Jackson Reports November 19, 2021 20:09:00

That was terrorized. so whether or not the person who pulled that trigger had tears to show afterwards really for me, frankly, is not the point. and it shouldn t be the focus of the conversation, because ultimately, we are at a place where figuring out whether or not somebody is crying legitimately or not distracting us from the kind of terror we re experiencing all across this country. i do believe that the act of picking up an ar-15, getting a ride to kenosha and standing out there to supposedly defend property is all about terrorizing people into operating in a certain social order. and the conclusions that we got from this particular verdict, the actions of this judge, the actions of kyle rittenhouse, and to be clear, the aggregate understanding that we get from these zimmerman style verdicts is two-fold. ....

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MSNBC Katy Tur Reports November 19, 2021 19:30:00

Confront the situation that you re in. this i thought the prosecution might have had some success with, arguing that rittenhouse went overboard when he used a firearm, for instance to confront someone who presented with a skateboard. that didn t turn out to be influential with this jury. and even if it had, it could have provided rittenhouse with what s called imperfect self-defense, which would have been some form of reduction in the charges he would have faced. i think taking this case and trying to suggest that it might mean something across the country, i m less worried about what happens in courthouses during trials and more concerned about individuals who might feel emboldened to act more aggressively with their guns in public settings. i think that s the real risk we face after a verdict like this. rittenhouse taking the stand. a lot of lawyers would say that s a pretty risky move by the defense, to put him on the ....

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