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Think it indicates a fair amount of financial stress. >> and just to put a fine point on it, how do we compare this to what we all experienced in 2008? >> can't compare it. this is no comparison. in 2008/09, delinquency rates were much hirgher, and it was across all forms of household debt, not just cards and consumer finance. but it was auto loans and of course mortgages was the real big problem. that is the biggest chunk of household debt is the mortgages that they owe. and at that time enormous increase in defaults and foreclosures. that is not happening this go around. >> and even accordin...

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Long this issue is going to be around. because this is something that people are not going to stop caring about this year, next year, or the year after that. this is something that is motivating people. and it is crystallizing for people what is so dangerous about having essentially an anti-democratic party in the republican party. again, they're telling us what their playbook is. they're staying in ohio, because we know we can't win this in a fair vote among our people, we're just going to start to tinker around with how many votes they need to get and who can vote. people are aware of this. ...

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Senate and the congress and their chambers. this was unprecedented and we ought to not act like this is just another news story. >> charlie, just to put a fine point on t clark is believed to be co-conspirator number 4 in the indictment. i want to read the section where he appears to be mentioned. the deputy white house counsel reiterated the co-conspirator four there had nobody the out -- and if the defendant remained in office nonetheless there would be, quote, riots in every major city in the united states. co-conspirator four responded, well, deputy white house counsel, that's why there's ...