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To ibm? what about to dell? by orders of magnitude worse and even more so, when you think about politics, she's selling something. when she was the ceo of hp she told investors targets, what she was going to do and she missed them repeatedly to the score, by the way of $2.4 million in missed targets. now, whether the public scares about those numbers, that's a different question. >> david, where she showed passion, she is not accepting any of the fact checks on this planned parenthood thing and she really doesn't want to -- she's basically saying details don't matter, you should be outraged. >...

Them. she missed them repeatedly to the score of $2.4 billion in missed targets. now, whether the public cares about those numbers, that's a very different question. >> david, where she showed passion, she is not accepting any of the fact checks on this planned parenthood thing and she really doesn't want to -- she's basically saying details don't matter, you should be outraged. >> to andrew's point, it's not clear that reality matters to the electorate right now and i think that's true with trump, it's true with her. some people are great campaigners and some people are good in reality. so fa...