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That can live off the land. he's so successful in the debates. and one thing that killed him out here, right, is there haven't been many debates for while. >> and that's why perry is doing well. perry is best at retail campaigning, that one-on-one contact -- >> and advertising. >> right. more people are showing up to see rick perry, he's finally dedicating some time here, and he's not debating. >> let me ask you about the role of iowa. iowa made jimmy carter. in many ways i would argue it made president obama. winning out here sort of established him, almost the way that bush won the presidenc...

Debates. and one thing that killed him out here, right, is there haven't been many debates for while. >> and that's why perry is doing well. perry is best at retail campaigning, that one-on-one contact -- >> advertising. >> right. more people are showing up to see rick perry, he's finally dedicating some time here, and he's not debating. >> let me ask you about the bigger role of iowa. iowa made jimmy carter. hit made president obama. it established him the way that bush won the presidency, to the extent he deserved to win it, because he was seen as the first sort of flash winner, when the fir...